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Highlights of the Interview:

(...) NACHMAN: You think racial profiling is another word for saying reality. Or am I putting words in your mouth?

BRANDON: No, I think it is in this case. And it's profiling based upon people who have committed a crime and who are likely to commit another crime. And you have to stop it. So, you have to look at the right people. That just makes sense to me. (...)

BRANDON: (...) I think that what you have to realize is that our world has changed. We're all subject to this. I've been searched many, many times thoroughly at airports since 9/11. There's no question about it. But we have to look at those who we know may have a higher propensity for committing acts of terrorism. That's just simply a fact of life in our world today. (...)

NACHMAN: When you send out a net, some innocent fish get caught in that net sometimes. Is that any reason to throw the net away?

BRANDON: No, it's not, but you have to be careful what you do with the net. And people should not be caught. And, in fact, they're not all suspects. They're simply -- Arab-Americans should be offended by the fact that other people are committing crimes and bringing this down on them. But, in fact, when we say "down on them," all it is, is, they're being checked before they get on the airplane. That's all it is, just like happens to you, just like happens to me.

I think the thing we got to think about is, when an airplane is hijacked and there are Arab -- innocent Arabs, people who have nothing to do with it, on board that airplane, their first thought is probably not, "Gee, I'm so glad that there wasn't any profiling today." Their first thought is not that. Their first thought is, "I'm just as much a victim as anybody else." (...)

For the full interview see below.

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TRANSCRIPT: # 071700cb.465

SECTION: NEWS; DOMESTIC

LENGTH: 6379 words

HEADLINE: How Much Do Police Know About Runnion's Killer?; Should Airline Passengers be Profiled by Race?; Does Porn Adversely Affect Boys?

BYLINE: Jerry Nachman

GUESTS: Michael Carona; Cyril Wecht; Mark Kernes; N.G. Berrill; Skip Brandon; Osama Siblani; Martha Burk

HIGHLIGHT:
How much do authorities really know about Samantha Runnion's killer? Then, should airline passengers be profiled by race? Finally, is porn adversely affecting an entire generation of boys?

BODY:
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOTBE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(...) In the war on terror, should we accept racial profiling as a necessary evil? Shouldn't certain passengers be singled out for screening instead of wasting time frisking grandmas and kids? We'll look at whether that makes common sense.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NACHMAN: We can report tonight another case of post-9/11 jitters. Two F-16s scrambled last night intercepting a passenger jet headed from Chicago to New York. The military planes escorted the American Trans Air flight to a safe landing at New York's La Guardia Airport after a report of passengers acting suspiciously, said to have been passing notes and switching seats.

It turned out the seven passengers were performance artists from India headed to New York for an appearance at Queens College, alma mater of Jerry Seinfeld. And the incident showed that many people who may look like they're from the Near East or the Mideast are under scrutiny in America. We should point out that Indians are neither Arabs nor Muslims. To some, profiling is a dirty word when it comes to screening airline passengers, but let's talk about it.

With us now are Osama Siblani, the publisher of "The Arab-American News" in Detroit; and, in Washington, former deputy assistant director of the FBI, Skip Brandon, who was with the National Security Division, now is in private security and investigation.

Thank you both for being with us.

SKIP BRANDON, FORMER FBI AGENT: Good evening.

OSAMA SIBLANI, "ARAB-AMERICAN NEWS": Thank you, Jerry.

NACHMAN: Skip, if you don't mind, I'm going to start with you.

BRANDON: Sure.

NACHMAN: You think racial profiling is another word for saying reality. Or am I putting words in your mouth?

BRANDON: No, I think it is in this case. And it's profiling based upon people who have committed a crime and who are likely to commit another crime. And you have to stop it. So, you have to look at the right people. That just makes sense to me.

NACHMAN: Right. But one of the problems we're dealing with in post-9/11 society is that it's not a reversible equations -- a reversible equation, I should say. While most of the terrorists that we know about have been Arabs, most Arabs are not terrorists.

BRANDON: Absolutely.

NACHMAN: So how do you accommodate that?

BRANDON: Absolutely.

I think that what you have to realize is that our world has changed. We're all subject to this. I've been searched many, many times thoroughly at airports since 9/11. There's no question about it. But we have to look at those who we know may have a higher propensity for committing acts of terrorism. That's just simply a fact of life in our world today.

NACHMAN: Mr. Siblani, you represent readers in the Detroit area, probably America's biggest Arab-American community, most of them not Muslims, if I understand correctly, but Maronite Christians. Yet you think this is a bad idea.

SIBLANI: Yes I do, Jerry.

First, let me congratulate you on the show. It's an excellent show.

And, you know, what Skip said right now, he listed about 3.5 million Arabs and about seven million Muslims and people who look like them as suspects in the war on terrorism. And that is not the case. And everybody know that that's not the case. Racial profiling was in existence before September 11. Actually, it started in 1996 as a result of the (INAUDIBLE) commission after the Oklahoma bombing.

And it did not work. It did not prevent who wanted to commit atrocity against our nation to do it.

(CROSSTALK)

NACHMAN: Excuse me.

Two attacks on the World Trade Center, 1993's and 2001's, the USS Cole, the Khobar Towers -- almost without exception, terrorists acts involving U.S. targets, the embassies in Africa, have been perpetrated by Arabs, radical Muslims. Doesn't it make logical sense to draw an inference that there's a higher probability that examining Arab-looking people getting on planes is going to be more productive than strip-searching your congressman, John Dingell, out there because he has a titanium hip?

SIBLANI: Well, the same thing happened to Darrell Issa, who is a congressman out of California. He was deplaned in France because he's an Arab-American. He's a member of the U.S. Congress. Also, a member of the security service for the president was deplaned and kicked out of the plane because he's an Arab-American.

(CROSSTALK)

NACHMAN: And, Skip Brandon, this is where I want a law enforcement perspective from you.

BRANDON: Yes.

NACHMAN: When you send out a net, some innocent fish get caught in that net sometimes. Is that any reason to throw the net away?

BRANDON: No, it's not, but you have to be careful what you do with the net. And people should not be caught. And, in fact, they're not all suspects. They're simply -- Arab-Americans should be offended by the fact that other people are committing crimes and bringing this down on them. But, in fact, when we say "down on them," all it is, is, they're being checked before they get on the airplane. That's all it is, just like happens to you, just like happens to me.

I think the thing we got to think about is, when an airplane is hijacked and there are Arab -- innocent Arabs, people who have nothing to do with it, on board that airplane, their first thought is probably not, "Gee, I'm so glad that there wasn't any profiling today." Their first thought is not that. Their first thought is, "I'm just as much a victim as anybody else."

NACHMAN: Mr. Siblani, how do you deal with this disequilibrium in the numbers of terrorists who do have Arab backgrounds?

SIBLANI: Well, I'm not going to...

NACHMAN: It's already been stipulated that most Arabs are not terrorists, but most terrorists have been Islamic fundamentalists.

SIBLANI: Well, I think what we need to do in here is what the rest of the world has been doing: tighten security on the airport, subjecting everyone to the same rules and regulations.

When you go to go on a plane, you go through a security check. Everybody has to go through the same security check, but to select someone because of his color or because of his name...

NACHMAN: I want to respectfully disagree with you.

I think that, for years, people who looked Irish were treated very different at Heathrow Airport than people who looked like they were Arabic. And we know that David Ben-Gurion Airport has tiers of coverage, that a Jew with a Hebrew passport gets treated one way, and an Anglo another, and Arabs are essentially strip-searched. And it's been like that for 50 years.

Am I right, Skip, about that?

BRANDON: No, you're absolutely right.

SIBLANI: I've been traveling around, Jerry. I've been traveling around and I have not been subjected to this kind of a treatment. And I know some other Arabs were not subjected to this kind of a treatment. Now, it happens once in a while in other airports.

But what I'm saying in here is, when you need to tighten security -- because, see, when we say racial profiling and we're going to profile people who are Arabs or Muslims between the ages of 18 and 35, so we're telling the terrorists, whoever they are, send somebody under 18 or above 35, and not men. So it does not work. It has not worked in the past. It will not work. It's not going to work.

What we need to do is, we need to treat everyone equal, subject to the same rules and regulations.

NACHMAN: Skip, you're in the security business. What is your advice to a client right now?

BRANDON: My advice to a client is, they'd better be happy they're getting searched. They'd better be happy that a lot of people are getting searched. I would say everybody should be the same way. I couldn't agree more. They don't have the resources to do it.

NACHMAN: We're out of time.

I want to thank our guests, Osama Siblani, the publisher of "The Arab-American News" in Detroit, and Skip Brandon of Smith Brandon International. We thank you both for being here.

(...)